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Borrowing To Invest Vs. Saving To Invest

written by John Chow on December 21, 2008

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How Come You're Rich?

This is a follow up to my post about bums not being richer than you. I want to give an example of how a leveraged investment not only make you more money, but is no more risky or cost any more than the standard “save and invest” method.

The Money Saver

The saver is someone we’re all familiar with. He likes to save a certain amount of money every month into investments so he will have a nice nest egg when he retires. He likes to avoid debt at all cost because that is what everyone who don’t know squat about finances tells him.

Let’s assume our saver socks away $500 per month, every month for 20 years, into long term investments (stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc). Let’s also assume our saver average a return of 10% per year. Some years will be up, some will be down but over the long term, 10% is about what the stock market has returned to investors.

At the end of the 20 year period, and after socking away $120,000, our saver has a nice retirement nest egg of $378,015. Not too bad!

The Leveraged Investor

In this scenario, our investor wants to be like the saver and put $500 per month into long term investments. However, instead of putting the $500 directly into investments, he goes to his bank and sets up a home equity line of credit for $120,000. He takes the $120,000 and uses it to buy the long term investments. So, instead of spreading the $120,000 out over 20 years like the saver did, the leveraged investor borrowed $120,000 to invest everything right now.

Every month, our investor needs to make a payment to the line of credit. Payments can be as low as interest only to as high as the entire outstanding amount. Interest on a line of credit is generally done at Prime. Let’s assume it’s 5%. Prime is a lot lower than that right now but over 20 years, it will average out. If our investor pays interest only on the line of credit, he would need to pay $500 every month to maintain the line.

Because the $120,000 was used to buy investments, the $500 interest payment is tax deductible so our investor can look forward to a $6,000 tax write off every year. That will result in a $3,000 tax refund if our investor is in the 50% tax bracket. If our investor was smart, he’ll put this refund back into investments. But let’s assume he’s just blows it on women instead.

Comparing The Numbers

If we assume our leveraged investor makes the same 10% return as our saver, that $120,000 will turn into $807,299.99 in 20 years. At this point the investor can take out $120,000 to pay off the line of credit and will be left with a net of $687,299.99.

By taking average of good debt, our leveraged investor manged to build a nest egg nearly twice the size of the saver, with the same $500 per month. In addition, the $500 per month the investor paid was tax deductible, while the saver got no tax benefits. Had our investor put the $3,000 yearly tax refund back into investments instead of blowing it on women, he would have made $996,307.49 at the end of 20 years. Women are expensive!

Most financial planners won’t tell you about leveraged investments because they are prevented from doing so. Unless you’re an Accredited Investor (net worth over $1 million or income over $200,000 per year for the past two years) a financial planner cannot legally show you some of the more sophisticated investments available to people with money. This access to higher yielding investments vehicles is one more reason why the rich get richer. It was never a level playing field.

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It is easy to do the maths here. But, the most important thing is to have that sort of income to take this kind of loans, or credit of line. If I could make $30-$40k a month, things would be a lot easier.. I don't think you will have problem in getting 500k loan too.

As with anything, there's risk involved and you have to be able to make informed decisions when it comes to taking those risks no matter where the money is coming from.

There's valid points here on both sides of the coin and I think we can all agree that the most important thing we can do is invest in our future, whichever method we use.

Buy and hold just means you don't have an exit strategy or plan. Most sophisticated institutional investors who do buy and hold, have special agreements for preferred stock dividend payments guaranteeing that capital return. For most people the only way out is to OWN something. Either you are an owner, or your are OWNED.

Ephren Taylor
The Social Capitalist

I dont believe in buy and hold anymore after many personal losses in the internet bubble. I think the best strategy is understand the market and where its going to make money when its going up and when its going down. That has help me to book heavy gains even in 2008. Most of the time I dont even hold a stock for more than one month. I dont fall in love. I just seek a conservative gain from a stock of 50% or cut my losses early if they fall 20-30%. For example, if I use my tools and I know the market is going up (Long), I will select the best 10 stocks on based on their strong fundamentals across various sectors. When I gain 50% on each stock, I sell and move on. If any of stocks lose 20-30 percent, I sell. I use the inverse strategy most of 2008 because the market the was weak most of the time (short) and made money shorting when my tools said it was going down. If I dont know and I am unsure, I stay out. With the above, I made 80% gain while others lost their shirt include Warren Buffet. I dont believe in buy and hold and I will not use it ever except in my 401K because I have no choice but do that.

Great post John,

I think to make money, you have to invest, even if that means using credit cards.

Let's just say "smart" gambling, the more money you invest, the more chances of you making money.

I can attest to this as I maxed out all my credit cards earlier this year to keep my blogging business going.

But look at me now, my blogging business has grew almost 500% in the course of only one year.

If I didn't take those risks, I'd still be working like a slave for a corporation.

Unless you have money to start off with stay away from borrowing. Like with credit cards you will only find trouble follows this supposed free lunch.

i think this site is becoming way to commercialized every video u do now is like an infomercial every time you come here u get a pop up to subscribed which is really annoying dude calm down with all the crap concentrate on your content

If debt is good, then I'm probably the richest person on earth!!!

People.
Two points to make:
Yes, leveraging can be dangerous if not done properly. Better to use a LOC than margin account. Margin is even more dangerous as you will get a "funny phone call" if your account is even 1 penny negative for one day.
And as far as the last 6 months: You could have made a pile of money playing the downside. Without shorting! How? Contra ETF's. You take a long position as the ETF does the shorting for you. No margin needed as you are not physically shorting a stock. They are eligible to be used in your RRSP/IRA's.
QID - peaked 100%+ from Sept-oct. (short NASDAQ)
DUG - Peaked 100%+ form Sept. Oct.(short oil and gas)
SKF - peaked 250% from Sept.-Oct. (SHort Real Estate)

If you are unsure of the concept of the contra ETF's...A house will fall faster than the time it takes to build. That being said, being in the right vehicle, when a sector or stock falls, you can make a pile of cash real fast. But watch you support/resistance lebvels, and have an exit strategy. If you get to about 40-50% profit...don't get to greedy and have a profit mgmt plan in place!

Check it out and see for yourself.

Good luck to all...do your homework, do today what others won't, so tomorrw you will have what others don't.

Saving to invest is not a wise decision because risk taker always take the lead.

A lot of people are holding back because they expect prices to go even lower but anyway if you are a value investor, now is as good a time as any to start buying in bulk.

The thing about the investor and the saver in the bad situation is that even if the investor can still produce labor to pay off the loss, he'll be living a life of debt servitude til he dies for being too rash, and for all intent purposes a lot of people in the US would be living in debt servitude if the govt wasn't always talking about a bailout for them. There are so many people who are underwater with their homes that if they were required to pay that back than they'll be working until they're dead.

A key difference with Donald Trump though is that if he gets others to fork up their investments for his projects he isn't going into debt at all. Which leads to the best money is someone elses money going into your idea for a slice of the cake. There you put no money down but your idea. And to that, many individuals have gotten rich and successful without having to go into debt at all.

Very informative post, John. I'll admit that there were some things I wasn't sure about.

Great post John, convincing. I was with the other way round, now I've to rethink my strategy.

Home Equity Line of Credit are ONLY tax deductible if you use the money for home improvement for personal use. If it a rental property, then the expense can only used as depreciation expense.

If you use Home Equity Line of Credit for investments for tax deductions, you are sorta breaking the law. Anyways.. that is only if they catch you.

Awesome post! This is being bookmarked for future reference.

I just want to step out and say that it's pretty impressive that John was that active in the comments back and forth. I headed back to this post like 2-3 times a day since it went up to check out what's new. Usually you don't get something like that from these big guys - Shoe? Props John. The real test - will he respond to this?

Yea, I agree.

I'm still heading back to this post so I can debate with John a day later.

Like to look the bull in the face? Good job :)

Investing truly will pay off in the future, but also depends how much you have to invest :(

-Mike

Look at it from a percentage gained perspective, that's the way all investments should be.

Fantastic post John. I guess its best to take some risk some times. Its said fortune favors the brave. How true.

Both of these posts are based on information found in Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad, Poor Dad series. I recommend everyone read them. I also recommend getting the game "Cashflow 202" which teaches these concepts as well as how to create cash flow properties that produce income month after month.

The best time to invest is in a recession. Everything is on sale, I love to invest in this time

Yep, this is the time when the new rich are born and old rich stumble.

But if everyone takes out a loan, doesn't that cause the banks to run out of money and result in a huge economic crash like what's happening now?

Here's a great video explanation of why leveraging (debt) helps grow the economy as opposed to de-leveraging (paying off debt) :

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/videos/whiteboa...

The other videos explaining financial issues are excellent as well.

Great article John!! I have always been the leveraged investor, and it has certainly paid off!! Although in recent months I've taken a hit, I'm still better off in the long run!!

Actually any fool can get investment loans. Last year, there was a way to use agf trust to get access up to 200,000 in investment loans with no net worth and you didn't have to prove income. You did not have to be an accredit investor. All you had to have was a beacon above 600...and this was debatable. They no longer do this, as all of their investors have lost 30% to 40% over the last 6 months, and now people are asking their advisors why they put them into these leveraged investments. So....everybody, don't sell those leveraged loans!, they have no marginal calls, but if you close your accounts, you will be on the hook for leveraged losses.

Also, there is a way to get your tax deductions back immediately, instead of waiting for next year. :)

Wow. I put away about $1000 a month in INGdirect and I also tuck away an additional 4.8%. Now Bad right...

I love ING. Great place to park your money while you're waiting for the right investment to come along.

ING is great for high interest rates , also ICICI bank offers great rates in US and Canada

I don't like ICICI customer service though, it's on the bad side.

While we're on the topic of good banks, HSBC seems to be a mainstream solution that gives pretty good rates. Don't know about fees though.

INGdirect is an awesome place for high interest and good service.

Only thing is that it's making less sense to store your money in the bank due to the constant reduction in interest rates by central banks everywhere (which is exactly what they want).

Okay, stop arguing people..
Let me find a way to get $120k now. I will let u guys know the result in 20 years' time :D

Ya, that will shut them up! :D

I'm accepting donations!

I think I'll stick to simplicity. Borrowing may have potentially better returns, but just saving is so much easier and less worrisome.

Can you even get an interest only loan nowadays? Much less one for 20 years?

This strategy seems to work for those who were Money Savers to build up $120,000 in equity or capital. Then they can become Leveraged Investors. Sadly that is what everyone just did. Took their conservative savings built over decades into investments they didn't understand. Now they can't retire and have to wait another 10-20 years for 1). the economy to rebound, then 2). their investments to reacquire their value (if their investments survive until the economy rebounds).

If anyone has capital or equity left, this would be the time to be a Leveraged Investors.

That was my big point in the beginning. Given the credit market, one may not actually be able to pull this off simply because a bank wouldn't fund it. The saver would be in a better situation, given the state of the current credit market.

It would depend greatly on when you set up the LOC. Right now, banks may not give it out but if you had it all set up a year ago, you're set to pick up some great bargains because everything is cheap!

This is also the reason why Ford didn't need any government bailout money. They set up over $20 billion of loans and credit lines a few years ago and have access to them. GM and the other guy didn't do so and had to go begging to Uncle Sam.

There is also foreign and equity lending too. I'm working on an equity project right now where a group of people are pooling equity to purchase some foreclosed buildings in our downtown area and revitalize them.

Amazing some of the business basics are missed even by the huge corporations. When times are good, get you business credit in order for when times are bad. No one will lend it to you when you need it.

Not sure about the US, but here in Canada, you can still make interest only payment on a line of credit.

Once again, everyone has the same idea.

It's just that even the people with capital can not get a loan these days because banks are being greedy.

Banks are making loans. They're not just making loans to people who shouldn't be getting loans. If you're credit is good and you have a good history with your bank, you shouldn't have any problems getting a loan even now. I borrowed $225K last month without any problems and I'm maybe looking at borrowing another $500K in the next few months.

That's because you have the assets and the income to back up those loans.

What about the people who don't make $500,000+ a year and need some money? I agree that they don't deserve $225,000 like you, but a measly $50,000 would be helpful.

Unfortunately, the banks are using the federal aid to fatten their bottom lines and therefore hurting our economy further.

The banks go into their current mess because they loan money to people who couldn't pay them. I doubt they're going to start doing that again anytime soon.