Very nice post John Im learning a lot from your articles/blog post, keep it up!

I’ve read something like this a while back, for those who are interested on reading it the URL is below
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/07/10-reasons-you-should-never-get-a-job/

It’s quite old so most of you probably read it already but there it is anyway…

Sad but true. The sadder thing is that I pay taxes AFTER i pay all my bills, tee hee…

Good point. I never thought having a job in that way.

Another great article John. It’s very interesting that you are now writing and pointing me to this type of content, because I am just starting to research and learn more about my “financial intelligence”.
For all those reading, take John’s advice and learn more. A few good books to start with are “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” and “Inc Yourself”.

Thanks,
Wes Novack
http://Wesleytech.com
http:CraftBrewingForum.com

Get a job ya bum.

Great Article, but will there be a follow up, which states what kind of professions don’t have you trading dollars for hours?

Ok then whats the answer.
Other wise this sounds like a long whine…

So.. what do you suggest?

Well this is orignial (eyes rolling)

Adam - Yes I do plan on doing a follow up article.

Jack9 - I enjoy being a bum. Wouldn’t want to ruin that with a job.

So what is your suggestion?

It’s nice that you are able to write this article about how silly people are to work for a living. The world would work fine on pure arbitrage, right? Oh wait… people still have to work to build the computer you’re using, mine and produce the energy that runs it, and maintain the infrastructure that allows the whole deal to operate. You can trade good A for good B, or make a killing in derivatives, but all it really comes down to is exploitation. Finance is important, but what really makes the world go round is the back-breaking labor of the working people you so shamelessly deride.

I agree with you, John, but I also agree with Matt.
So, trading dollars for hours is a poor idea. What, exactly, would you suggest we do?

“Maybe it’s the fact that I have never held a job for more than a year of my entire life, but I just can’t understand why people would choose to make their income this way”

Wow. Jaw to the floor, shocked beyond comprehension, Wow. You, sir, are a cocksucker. People don’t “choose to make their income this way.” We are forced to. We have no choice. Not everyone is Albert-fucking-Einstein. Not everyone has a great idea to market, or a patent to profitably litigate over. Not everyone has old money and a god-damned trust fund. Most people have absolutely no choice but to work meaningless, demeaning, soul sucking jobs. We have to or we don’t eat. We have to or we don’t clothe our children. We have to or we die. Can you understand that? Is that simple enough for you?

It’s horrendous that someone can be so brazenly arrogant and so disturbingly out of touch with reality. After reading that article, I honestly, and with every fiber of my hour-selling being, hope you choke on your own blood.

love the article. just a sad thing when america’s youth are taught a lie from such a young age about trading their time for dollars–”get an education, get a good job, and you will succeed”. chasing active income will rarely ever lead to financial freedom. the passive income options are definitely the route to follow—a.)investments and b.)working with a business system backed by a proven system pattern.

this alternative way of thinking about making money is what is leading up to a very early retirement for this 20-something.

by no means am i putting jobs down…i fully respect anyone willing to work 50, 60, 70+ hours a week for the 40-50 years—with a good likelyhood of retiring on a small portion of their original income; but its definitely not the path i choose to follow.

you are only on the big ball of mud once–might as well make it a worth while adventure.

I concur with ZylogZ80…This chow guy is a prick who has never had to do anything on his own.

@ZylogZ80

“Wow.”

I agreed up till that point. And I agree in a small way that the author is a little arrogant, but then some people are inspired by arrogance. That arrogance may be what drives some people to find a great idea to market, an invention to patent, or find some other (hopefully legal and ethically / morally positive), non hourly way to make a living.

Everyone else, well… hoping anyone chokes on their food no mater who they are may be the same attitude that keeps you working hourly.

thisi guy is more obsessed with money than any of us wage slaves. Trust me, he spends WAY more time worried about not having enough of it…than we do just working for it 40 hours a week.

fijidave12, with all due respect, it may work for you, but if everyone did what you’re doing, it would not work for you or anyone else at all. I’m not exactly sure what you’d be investing in if no one worked. In reality, as you well know, you give them your money, and by working their butts off they turn it into more money. You certainly deserve your share of the profits from the risk you were willing to take, but that money-making scheme is completely moot if you don’t have someone willing to actually do something real with your money and their time. That’s the way it works. That’s the only way it can work. It’s ridiculous and academic and, in your case, self-defeating to discuss everyone following your path. It’s not within the realm of possibility. Congratulations on your success, btw.

Good point, but not an indepth analysis of the real benefits of getting self employed (that’s what we’re talking about here).

Read this article:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/07/10-reasons-you-should-never-get-a-job/

An ancient Chinese profit states:

“If you love your job, you’ll never work a day in your life.”

I’m not sure what the alternatives are. This reads more like a “benefits of my life article”. Insert some unionization here.

Talk about a strawman argument. First of all, the marginal tax rate on income tops out at 35%, not 50%. And it’s a *marginal* tax rate. In 2003, People with income under $200K paid about 14% on average. Even the most taxed individuals paid only about 25%.

And sure your company only pays 17.5% tax. What good does that do *you*? Add in the tax that accrues when the money flows from your company to you and then how does it compare?

There are certainly benefits to making money without working, but its not clear you understand them.

I hope you never have to hire anyone. Why would anybody work for you given this attitude?

Trading hours for dollars could be the best deal if you could not otherwise get access to the same resources. Many times the most valuable resources are time/exposure to highly experienced and creative people. You have to move around in order to make this happen (that’s the downside).

Part of knowing what you want to do (or not want to do) is achieved by trading hours for dollars.

Spending the majority of your life doing it is certainly a waste.. but it could be the most productive thing to do when you are discovering your real passion.

Scott - Welcome to Canada! Where individuals are taxed like crazy, but at least they have universal medical.

My argument holds true in the US as well. Your income tax maybe lower, but so is the corporate tax.

Hey Zylog, congratulations on sounding 10 times more arrogant than John Chow. In fact, after reading your heartless and single minded post, it is quite obvious why you are so hopelessly dependant on your way of living. You lack the confidence or determination to take risk or try something different. In no way are you forced to “work meaningless, demeaning, soul sucking jobs.” From the moment you turn 18, you have the exact same legal freedoms as Bill Gates as well as the homeless man on the street. And it doesnt take an “Albert Fucking Einstein” to get ahead. It takes guts, and risk taking. Something you obviously do not possess.

Devilhorn, how much do you donate to charity? I’d be willing to guess hardly anything. It’s a statistical fact that rich people give away a larger percentage of thier wealth than do poor people. I know a guy who makes $500,000 and gives away $80,000 a year to charity. So if you make $40,000 a year… do you give $6,400 to charity? Probably not, most people dont give more than $20 a month. And you’re calling the rich selfish? Try looking at yourself.

You propose what as an alternative? By the way, your writing style is atrocious.

Thanks for stating the alternative. Oh, wait–you didn’t. You just essentially wrote about NOTHING.

And by the way–the vast preponderance of people don’t “choose” to trade hours for dollars. They do it because they have to–there’s no other option.

Your article was moronic and self-serving.

The article claims that “trading hours for the dollar is like the worst possible method of earning a living one can make.” There is no argument possible because the claim itself is flawed — nobody is trading hours for money.

I spent 8 hours at work today. According to this article, I “traded” 8 hours to my boss for say $200. The money side of the trade is real — my bank account will increase when I get my paycheck. The “hours” side of the trade is not — my boss certainly did not magically gain 8 hours in his life.

Then, what is it I am trading to gain $200? Essentially my boss tells me that if I write (and “trade” to him) some PHP code that does a certain function, then he will trade to me $200. THAT is the real trade.

Even if trading time for money was possible, some of the supporting arguments don’t really make sense either.

Argument 1 & 2: really the same argument — there are ways where the goverment taxes you less. No big news here.

Argument 3: “You only earn dollars when you’re trading”

This is not an argument! Assuming we’re not talking about inheritances, donations, etc. no one is going to trade to me money if I don’t trade them back something. “Passive” income is simply a more efficient way of exchanging something you have for money. Clearly, I need to trade something in order to get dollars (or something else) back…

Argument 4: “If you trade hours for dollars, there is a cap on your income.” (I paraphrased because what is written makes no sense.)

Where/what is the cap? Has anyone hit their cap yet? “Oh damn, I’ve earned $50000 this year already and hit my cap. Darn it. I guess I can’t possibly go higher.”

~ ~

Otherwise, great article. I traded 2 minutes to read it. Did you get your 2 minutes yet John?

what an assinine post. making fun of working-class and poor people - even Republicans don’t do that. at least, not out in the open.

Yes, John “trades” his hours to demonstrate the obvious stupidity of others. Which, by the way, earns him less than simply trading hours for money.

Wow,
Call it what you like Chi, if you have a job, where you perform a duty or function for some company or person, you are trading your time, for their dollars. If you don’t understand this idea, have some person that does understand explain it to you. It doesn’t matter what you are doing during that time, writing code, answering the phone, or flippin’ burgers, you are trading your time for their dollars. The company you work for is leveraging off your effort. I was taught trading time for money my whole life, and told that it was what I was suppose to do when I grew up; wow, what an eye opener when I finally figured out that it wasn’t going to get me where I wanted to be in life. Find a way to make residual/passive income or leverage off other’s efforts.

To the others that are complaining that they are forced to trade their time for money, I say that it just doesn’t hurt bad enough for you yet. There are plenty of ways to earn extra income and/or break out of the mold if you want it bad enough. I guess you just haven’t got to that point where you hate what you are doing for work bad enough to make a change. When I see a person complain that they don’t like what they are doing, I simply tell them, Change It or Shut Up, your choice.

your a fool

John,

You answered your own statement…
You said, “… I just can’t understand why people would choose to make their income this way.”

Then you say…
“What happens then depends on the decisions you made earlier in life. If you planned well, …[but] the majority doesn’t plan well…”

Its as simple as that, the choice to make a living “trading hours for dollars” was made by choices earlier in our lives. Either those of our parents, our teachers, our community, or ourselves.

The very same economic system that enables you to live well without trading hours for dollars is predicated upon someone trading those hours for dollars.

Are you trying to tell us that it is possible for the 6 billion + people on the planet to “live” without anyone trading hours for money?

Yeah, you’re right, we could trade hours, for hours. In other words do away with money.

And perhaps we ought to, because then all these people who do “nothing” wouldn’t be able to survive living off of the people who actually “work”.

Those of us who actually make goods or provide services could get goods or be provided with services. Anyone who doesn’t contribute, would be dependent upon charity, or SOL.

How’s that sound…
That’s right, we humans used to do that, bartering.
And we even tried the altruistic idea of communism.

But in every instance of those economic systems, and even the pragmatic ones we’re using now, there are those who think that if it is possible to get goods or services, and not have to provide them, well then that’s obviously the way to go!

Problem is folks, physics reaches all the way into economics… you do not get something for nothing.
You might think you are, but the system will balance out in the end, somehow.

If you’ve got a perpetual motion economic machine John, I’d love to hear about. However I certainly won’t be calling for your “free” tape, or buying your book.

Work makes us productive members of society. What does you being a bum do for society, aside from giving you the free time to make a jackass out of yourself with blogs like these?

Eat the rich.

@trey
The distinction is important. Time passes no matter what we do (or don’t do). Money is traded for some good — like a work product.

“Find a way to make residual/passive income or leverage off other’s efforts.”

I don’t argue that this is a good idea. However, I take issue with the implication that this somehow lets you avoid “trading time for money.” Time is spent one way or another. This happens to be a more efficient way to “spend time”.

To the others who say they have no choice: the problem isn’t that you don’t have a choice — you do. You can choose to be smarter (i.e. efficient) about getting people to trade you money, or not.

I have a feeling the people who are offended (or simply don’t get the point) of this post actually work for someone who refuses to trade hours for dollars.

Thank’s for supporting us!

I think the inflamatory replies and derogatory comments towards John are very comical. Talk about shooting the messenger.

I didn’t see John state that “no one on the earth should trade hours for money”. As a few of you have mentioned, hourly workers make most of the world go round. John is simply pointing out that this is the most inefficient form of obtaining an income for an individual. People with a higher “financial intelligence” realize this.

The “we are forced” or “we don’t have a choice” posts are also hilarious. People with this attitude will most likely trade hours for dollars for the rest of their lives.

I believe I saw a few posts stating “what are the alternatives” or “what can we do”. As I already stated in my previous reply, a good start would be to read the book “RICH DAD, POOR DAD”.

Thank you,
Wes Novack
http://WesleyTech.com
http://CraftBrewingForum.com

If you insist on looking at it as trading hours for money, then everyone trades hours for money. All you’re talking about is whether the money you’ve traded your hours for comes to you in a lump sum (paycheck) or through smaller payments spread out over a larger period of time.

Investors don’t simply toss out money and watch more money come back to them. They or whoever provided them with their investment capital spend hours trading their time for money in what was most likely a typical job. Once this capital is in hand, the investor then again spends hours researching in order to make a good investment.

Business owners, at least the standard business owner, actually spends even more hours working for money than the standard employee. Running a successful business is not an easy task and requires a great deal of effort and management. Bill Gates may have a considerable amount of money, but I imagine he spent an equally considerable amount of hours to earn the money that he’s made.

Those that earn money based on creative works invest their time in both learning how to perform the act of creation as well as the creation itself.

The concept that you can earn money without “trading hours” is simply a fallacy. The real goal that I believe people should be seeking isn’t necessarily a way to avoid a traditional job. Instead, I believe they should find something that they will enjoy doing as they trade their hours for money. As long as you do that, it doesn’t matter what job you’re doing, you’ve already won.

Damn right JP, we need a few people to do our busy work…

haha

I think these comments are hilarious.. I’ve known John for almost 10 years, and it’s funny that people are accusing him of having “old money” and things like that… John’s been there folks. He’s done the 9-5 thing, and more. There’s a REASON he feels the way he does, and it’s not just arrogance.

When I was 18 I got my first job after high school. I learned very quickly that no matter what someone paid me, they were making more money off my work. After a year of trading my hours away, I decided to go in for myself. Since then, I haven’t worked for anyone other than myself. It’s been almost 10 years now, and I agree with John 1000% in EVERYTHING he says in this post. And the funny thing is, we’ve had similar conversations about this topic, and he’s actually holding back in this post

Interesting. I’m here to discuss this from a medical point of view.

In response to a brief survey of the comments–my job (ER Doc) is not soul sucking. Even though I have an employer (hospital, or hospital-via-group contract), which puts many, many constraints and demands upon me that detract from my enjoyment of my work, generally speaking I make directly a significant contribution to someone’s life and well-being, which leaves me satisfied, renumerated, and respected.

Despite trading hours for pay, my expert status leaves me with enough income and free time so I can enjoy my life. Some doctors (medical/surgical specialists) choose to fulfill niche roles that enable them to extract maximum reimbursement from their time commitment. Seeing my father’s broken marriages, despite his successful oncology practice, makes me wonder at the particularly American practice of being rich. Other people (family, charity) spend the bulk of his money. He enjoys himself, sure, but only after 20 years of hardship, working ~70 hours per week.

I will probably follow the European model of “work to live,” versus the American model of “live to work”. Instead of parceling out work/live tradeoffs serially, I will incorporate work in parallel to support the lifestyle and level of service that I see fit for as long as I am able. Work is not a means to an end, it should be an end worth supporting throughout.

“The Journey is the Prize”.
–

John - Are you basing TTZ here in Hong Kong where the top company profits rate is 17.5%?

Get a good paying job, then do as little as possible that way you are over paid and under worked. Kinds screws the system.

Why was this written?

Lazy Verizon Employee…I think I’ve met you. Sounds to me that you’ve all got too many hours and from the looks of it, you’re earning exactly what you deserve.

Well said, John. The idiots who say you can’t be right or are doing something unethical are trapped by their own stupidity.

It’s possible to make enough money to live quite well without working 9 to 5 — I do it myself. I don’t have a boss and I “work” at home. Because I don’t have to go to an office my expenses are a lot lower: no commuting costs, no work clothes to buy, no lunches, and my business pays for my broadband connection and telephone. If I don’t feel like working, I don’t. Most of the time I just do as I please.

However, you and I do need these idiots with jobs, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to live as well as we do. Every society needs drones. So don’t tell them any secrets, they can work them out for themselves — as we had to do.

David

The only way to make that sort o